Curse

Calista Blackblood · Mar 05, 2008, 10:37 AM // 10:37

quoted because he didnt make sense at all :P

Necrotic · Mar 05, 2008, 01:23 PM // 13:23

If you're gonna go MM.....go cap your Fleshy....he's fun to play with.

Curses are really the Necros most useful line...but the FoC spike is a bit energy intensive...do to the need for a hex first to get life steal to trigger.

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

It's called P V E.
Or the longer version:
People leaving their brains at home because it's a waste using them since the AI is so lacking.
Or:
People want pretty armours! V E.
Or:
Spank Them Bottoms! PVE.

It doesn't even need to make sense!
It's PVE!
So let's not make this insane science out of it.

Oh, that attitude is all fine and well until you try to complete, say, Dzagonur Bastion in Hard Mode for Masters with six heroes.

Your "600+hp, 30 energy, Divert Hexes elite" necromancer player ideas wouldn't save you there either...

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyC

OgVDMKyMOXVuhTAZkB6BEhwB

Why would you run Blinding Surge AND Blinding Flash on the same bar?

On topic: Spiteful Spirit if you like numbers, Minion Master if you like making dead foes your undead SLAVES!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

NOOOO!1!! Dont listen to this. Echo is worse than hiphop! (Yes.. shocking.. I know.. but I mean it!!).

Okay.. People generally love Arcane Echo.. And... I have no idea why. I'm not gunna tell you not to use it.. Cus frankly I dont care whether or not you phail. Im just gunna say why its a wasted skill slot from my viewpoint.

Okay...
1)2 sec cast time.. By the time you have SS echoed.. The enemy will be dead. Casting SS before the enemy dies is a challenge enough.
2)15 Energy?!?! Waste much?
3)The point of 2 SS's = what exactly? If you reckon 2xSS is good for damage, then you are sadly mistaken. MoP + SS.. or Barbs + SS could easily outdamage 2xSS.

All in all.. The Cons easily outweigh the benefits (if there are any). The energy cost is appauling.. 2 SS + Arcane echo = 15e+15e+15e=45e. That is a waste of energy, like it or not. You could EASILY get better overall damage with Barbs + SS + MoP =10e+10e+15e=35e. Even with the necro's insane energy management.. Echo + SS is overrated. Although it doesnt matter if u waste the energy.. You do save skill slots for more viable skills.

You're supposed to use SS on targets you aren't focusing on.
And MoP + Barbs is only better CONSIDERING you have heavy physical damage.

Moar SS on enemies you aren't focusing moar better.

Qdq Swi · Mar 05, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia Dagger Rage

really?

oh silly me SV is BLOOD magic

there arent many farms that use SS over SV, DoA UW/FoW to name a few

SV is blood magic?!?! LIES.

That last sentence means nothing.. The majority of decent necro farms use SS except a few like Minister Cho's Estate and Yeti Farming because the targets are mostly ranged/ casters and so placing SS on them efficiently doesnt work too well.

SV gets a targets health low, quickly. Especially when you have 55 hp. But its alot slower than SS in many cases. And it isnt a guranteed kill. Whats to say an opponent has a lower hp than you have, and yet.. is still attacking?

Blood is bad, very bad. Even when it comes to farming.. most farms use SS over SV. Btw.. are you saying 55 UW solo uses SV over SS? The UW smite solo uses SS over SV guess why? Cus the smites will die so fast the long recharge for killing just 1 target isnt worth it. SS > SV in the UW.. even if your farming Aatxes theres no stopping you from swapping out SV for SS.

Boss farming is a faction of Farming in general. Theres many more farms available to a necro than just using SV and Vampiric Bite on bosses. You can kill bosses just as easily with SS.. not to mention mobs that go with them.

Dont like Facts? Well.. you can gtfo or... stfu cus either way SS>SV.

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

SV gets a targets health low, quickly. Especially when you have 55 hp. But its alot slower than SS in many cases. And it isnt a guranteed kill. Whats to say an opponent has a lower hp than you have, and yet.. is still attacking?

I thought people ran something to ASSURE the kill, Vamp Gaze or Blood of the Aggressor to finish off.

Quote:

Blood is bad, very bad. Even when it comes to farming.. most farms use SS over SV. Btw.. are you saying 55 UW solo uses SV over SS? The UW smite solo uses SS over SV guess why? Cus the smites will die so fast the long recharge for killing just 1 target isnt worth it. SS > SV in the UW.. even if your farming Aatxes theres no stopping you from swapping out SV for SS.

Nope.
SV > Low amounts of enemies. The fact that Smites are in huge mobs equals to SS being better overall, if there was only say 1-3, SV would be a better choice.

Quote:

Boss farming is a faction of Farming in general. Theres many more farms available to a necro than just using SV and Vampiric Bite on bosses. You can kill bosses just as easily with SS.. not to mention mobs that go with them.

Dont like Facts? Well.. you can gtfo or... stfu cus either way SS>SV.

SV for killing tiny mobs which drop good, because it's faster on small amounts of enemies.
SS for killing huge mobs which drop good, because it's faster on big amounts of enemies.

KennyC · Mar 05, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

@ tyla salanari
Q.Why would you run Blinding Surge AND Blinding Flash on the same bar?

A. Because it works really well. The hero cycles through his available skills, in this case the ones that are most available are the 2 blind skills and epidemic, the others are conditional skills. The Hero also cycles through the available targets really well, blinding everything, it effectively nullifies all enemy Mellee and rangers.
I made it perfectly clear what its for in my first post.

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyC

@ tyla salanari
Q.Why would you run Blinding Surge AND Blinding Flash on the same bar?

A. Because it works really well. The hero cycles through his available skills, in this case the ones that are most available are the 2 blind skills and epidemic, the others are conditional skills. The Hero also cycles through the available targets really well, blinding everything, it effectively nullifies all enemy Mellee and rangers.
I made it perfectly clear what its for in my first post.

Blinding Surge isn't good enough on spammability?
Eek...

KennyC · Mar 05, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

To answer your question, after testing I found that there were gaps in the blind coverage so I added the other blind spell. Bsurge by itself is adequate - add the other blind spell and its very effective.

It does work I've happily vanquished many areas with this on my team.

I think you should actually try the builds before you make comments. It gives you a better Idea of how well it works.

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Yeah, I've vanquished many areas - with shitty builds and no interrupts on my ranger.
Blinding Surge AND Blinding Flash on the same bar is stupid.

KennyC · Mar 05, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Again you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing which makes you look like a tool.

I've explained in depth why it's there, you can either accept my explanation or not. Trolling just makes you look like a petulant child.

Try it before you troll.

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Lol, Kenny.
You've explained in depth why it's there, I've explained why it's bad.
Open some slots.

*Cough* Let's not derail this one like the Warrior ones. *Cough*

KennyC · Mar 05, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Youre right about one thing, we shouldnt derail the OP's thread. A point to note is you havent made a single constructive comment in all your posts. Well done!

It is a good build for what its designed to do, too bad youre too narrow minded to see that.

Back on topic then. Why dont you post a fun necro build that we can all talk about?

Numa Pompilius · Mar 05, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

NOOOO!1!! Dont listen to this. Echo is worse than hiphop! (Yes.. shocking.. I know.. but I mean it!!).

Echo is an elite. That's why it's not used often, especially not with Spiteful Spirit which is ALSO an elite. Echo is otherwise much better than Arcane Echo.

Quote:

Okay.. People generally love Arcane Echo.. And... I have no idea why.

Because one spiteful spirit is good, but two on adjacent enemies is made of chocolate. Two SS on two adjacent attacking dervishes is especially hilarious: double instagib!

Quote:

3)The point of 2 SS's = what exactly? If you reckon 2xSS is good for damage, then you are sadly mistaken. MoP + SS.. or Barbs + SS could easily outdamage 2xSS.

I really think you really need to look at the skill descriptions for Mark of Pain and Barbs...

They're good skills in their own right, but they're not triggered by SS. It's not physical damage, you know.

By the way, was the OP asking for a farm-build? I didn't get that. If so that's a completely different thing than a fun general PvE build.

Tyla · Mar 05, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KennyC

Youre right about one thing, we shouldnt derail the OP's thread. A point to note is you havent made a single constructive comment in all your posts. Well done!

It is a good build for what its designed to do, too bad youre too narrow minded to see that.

Back on topic then. Why dont you post a fun necro build that we can all talk about?

Narrow mindset because I'm pointing out something stupid?
You're bad. Blinding Surge & Blinding Flash in the same build is stupid, yet again.

SS if you like numbers popping up, MM if you like making your dead enemies zombies!

Qdq Swi · Mar 05, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Narrow mindset because I'm pointing out something stupid?
You're bad. Blinding Surge & Blinding Flash in the same build is stupid, yet again.

SS if you like numbers popping up, MM if you like making your dead enemies zombies!

Gotta agree, you dont need both on the same bar. Works perfectly fine with just Blinding Surge... not to mention the fact that you save a skill slot.

ender6 · Mar 05, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Okay...
1)2 sec cast time.. By the time you have SS echoed.. The enemy will be dead. Casting SS before the enemy dies is a challenge enough.
2)15 Energy?!?! Waste much?
3)The point of 2 SS's = what exactly? If you reckon 2xSS is good for damage, then you are sadly mistaken. MoP + SS.. or Barbs + SS could easily outdamage 2xSS.

Apparently you have never played an arcane echo ss, or at least played one properly.

1) You pecast Aracne Echo before you hit the enemy. Therefore the 2sec cast time is meaningless.
2) You will regen almost all of the 15 energy as you get to the enemy.
3) Things literally disintergrate with multiple ss's going. Physical mobs tear themselves apart.

Nostalgia: I remeber the days of doing Sorrow Furnace runs.

@OP I think the first 2 Necro builds I learned and enjoyed immensely were MM and SS.

Azeren Wrathe · Mar 05, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

ok well ive been sifting through all the comments, most were arguing about the merits of builds and talking about skills i dont know (i play a dervish), but it seems to me that what people think would be the most fun is either the SS build for lots of damage or MM build if i like raising hordes of undead and making them do my bidding. since im yet to actually start playing my necro properly (i got sidetracked doing some more EOTN missions on my dervish *sigh*) i still can pick which one i want to start my necro with. anyway both builds look like a tonne of fun which just makes my selection harder, however i rekon ill still go mm since that should help me plow through the early stages of the game and i can always change ss build later. however if im wrong about the "plowing through the early stages of the game" thing tell me

Moloch Vein · Mar 05, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

No, you're absolutely right.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 05, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

SV is blood magic?!?! LIES.

That last sentence means nothing.. The majority of decent necro farms use SS except a few like Minister Cho's Estate and Yeti Farming because the targets are mostly ranged/ casters and so placing SS on them efficiently doesnt work too well.

solo boss farming (god forgive me i had to go to work and didnt check i had a simple 4 letter word in my previous post) as 55 Mo or N more often than not relies on single target damage of SV. such as byzzr wingmender, sourbeak rotshell, exuro flatus.the dmg done at 12 blood/curses speaks volumes and it isnt hard to pack a spike or two,most if not all blood life steals will steal well over 55hp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

SV gets a targets health low, quickly. Especially when you have 55 hp. But its alot slower than SS in many cases. And it isnt a guranteed kill. Whats to say an opponent has a lower hp than you have, and yet.. is still attacking?

sometimes game mechanics just arent what theyre supposed to be

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Blood is bad, very bad. Even when it comes to farming.. most farms use SS over SV.

i agree with you, but there are still lots of farms using SV to great effect,where quite simply the aoe benefit of SS isnt suitable,and we cant forget the classic TopK orders necro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Btw.. are you saying 55 UW solo uses SV over SS? The UW smite solo uses SS over SV guess why? Cus the smites will die so fast the long recharge for killing just 1 target isnt worth it. SS > SV in the UW.. even if your farming Aatxes theres no stopping you from swapping out SV for SS.

i didnt even mention UW but your preaching info ive known for a long time,there is no sense whatsoever in using the blood line in uw (except maybe for 55/ss and the necro low specs blood for blood ritual),any decent UW solo or duoer knows the unwritten rule, single target damage in UW is failure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Boss farming is a faction of Farming in general. Theres many more farms available to a necro than just using SV and Vampiric Bite on bosses. You can kill bosses just as easily with SS.. not to mention mobs that go with them.

of course,yet some farms (probably mainly 55) still arent suited to SS as you dont want to kill surrounding mobs that are providing you with energy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qdq Swi

Dont like Facts? Well.. you can gtfo or... stfu cus either way SS>SV.

the only fact here is that both sv and ss are commonly used in farming builds of different variety and in differing circumstances,theres no need to tell me to gtfo or stfu